偶是百合花，关于上次问Shining的Doom of Noldor的问题，偶的废话又开始滔滔不绝了，由于比较长SO偶另外发贴了，众亲的恢复偶也贴过来了，大家一起讨论挖(*^__^*) 嘻嘻……
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俺一眼看见，不免心痒，于是越俎代庖一下下，^^b S不要怪罪啊……不过反正这也只是我的理解而已，大家来讨论吧……
先把原文贴上：
Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Ea, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.
注意这一句：
On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also.
于是范围就很清楚了，Feanor家族，以及所有追寻Feanor家族的人。在当时的情境里，那就是依旧决定前行、最后到达中土的所有流亡 Noldor。之后的所有叙述，针对Feanor家族而发的自然是有，比如the Oath，比如dispossessed；但是针对那些以为去往中土可 以建功立业的也有，就是那第二段了：指出美好未来是没有的，死也好活也好，各有各的凄惨下场，死的永世不得原谅，活的只能饱受折磨逐渐衰微，最后还要眼睁 睁看着人类来取而代之。话说，这要不是狠的，真不知还有什么更狠。如果说有些内容更像预言而非诅咒，那么说死后要在Mandos蹲很久之类的，可就是诅咒 了，因为管着Mandos的不就是该诅咒者本人么……
愤怒之战之后的确有许多Noldor回去，但是我记得在某处见过，说这些回去的永生都留在Eressea岛上，而非回到Aman大地。
EC
没啥好怪罪的呀，大家来讨论不是挺好的 ^^
关于Doom of Noldor的针对范围，我的理解同喷泉一样：Feanor家族，以及所有追随他们离开并前往中土的人们。其中针对Feanor家族的部分更加明确，其他人么，则是指明了前途黯淡死路一条。
至于这个是curse还是prophecy，我的理解是：看上去像预言，但本质上是诅咒。如果是预言，就是说一定会发生，不因预言者态度的改变而有所变化，也就根本不存在因为原谅而消解的机会。可Silm里是这么说的：
They were admitted again to the love of Manwë and the pardon of the Valar; and the Teleri forgave their ancient grief, and the curse was laid to rest.
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俺一眼看见，不免心痒，于是越俎代庖一下下，^^b S不要怪罪啊……不过反正这也只是我的理解而已，大家来讨论吧……
先把原文贴上：
Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Ea, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.
注意这一句：
On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also.
于是范围就很清楚了，Feanor家族，以及所有追寻Feanor家族的人。在当时的情境里，那就是依旧决定前行、最后到达中土的所有流亡 Noldor。之后的所有叙述，针对Feanor家族而发的自然是有，比如the Oath，比如dispossessed；但是针对那些以为去往中土可 以建功立业的也有，就是那第二段了：指出美好未来是没有的，死也好活也好，各有各的凄惨下场，死的永世不得原谅，活的只能饱受折磨逐渐衰微，最后还要眼睁 睁看着人类来取而代之。话说，这要不是狠的，真不知还有什么更狠。如果说有些内容更像预言而非诅咒，那么说死后要在Mandos蹲很久之类的，可就是诅咒 了，因为管着Mandos的不就是该诅咒者本人么……
愤怒之战之后的确有许多Noldor回去，但是我记得在某处见过，说这些回去的永生都留在Eressea岛上，而非回到Aman大地。
EC
没啥好怪罪的呀，大家来讨论不是挺好的 ^^
关于Doom of Noldor的针对范围，我的理解同喷泉一样：Feanor家族，以及所有追随他们离开并前往中土的人们。其中针对Feanor家族的部分更加明确，其他人么，则是指明了前途黯淡死路一条。
至于这个是curse还是prophecy，我的理解是：看上去像预言，但本质上是诅咒。如果是预言，就是说一定会发生，不因预言者态度的改变而有所变化，也就根本不存在因为原谅而消解的机会。可Silm里是这么说的：
They were admitted again to the love of Manwë and the pardon of the Valar; and the Teleri forgave their ancient grief, and the curse was laid to rest.
